2011-10-25 18:41
關於老魚的新帖，我並不覺得與改革宗有什麼相左；
所谓的成為神，就是成聖，得永生；與改革宗的立场沒有什麼不同的；
=〉人类被认定值得成为神（多数，gods）并值得有权力成为至高者的众子的能力，这是被证实的，
=〉 but the man alone is “the image and the likeness of God.” I mean by man not one who behaves like animals, but one who who has advanced far beyond his humanity towards God himself. (人独独有神的形像和样式)
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關於老魚的新帖，我並不覺得與改革宗有什麼相左；
所谓的成為神，就是成聖，得永生；與改革宗的立场沒有什麼不同的；
* https://www.51zanmei.net/home-space-do-blog-uid-21906-id-7207.html
in him we really are made partakers of the eternal life of God himself.
在他里面我们成为真正分享神自己生命的人。
=〉在他里面我们真正成为神自己永生的分享人。
In both traditions this renewal of our common humanity in the person of the incarnate Word is affirmed and venerated as the decisive saving action of divine grace and the pledge of the renewal and restoration of all who are united to Christ as members of the body of which He is the Head.
在这两个传统中，我们共有的人性在这个成为肉身的道的位格中被更新被，乃是由那些与基督联合并成为那个他（基督）作头的身体的肢体的信徒的被更新和重新恢复的神圣恩典决定性的救赎和保证，而被被确认和敬拜。
=〉在这两个传统中（认为），在这个成为肉身的道的位格中我们共有的人性的被更新是被确认和被尊崇为神圣恩典的决定性救赎动作，以及所有与基督联合的人被更新和被恢复的保证，而与基督联合的人是那个他（基督）作头的身体的肢体。
Come, Creator Spirit, for Renewal, Pg 373
At this point let me plead for a re-consideration by the Reformed Church of what the Greek fathers called theosis. This is usually unfortunately translated deification, but it has nothng to do with the divinization of man (神化。不幸的是，这个字通常被翻译成神化，但是它跟人的圣化完全无关) any more than the Incarnation has to do with the humanization of God. Theosis was the term the Fathers used to emphasize the fact that through the Spirit we have to do with God in his utter sublimity, his sheer Godness or holiness; creatures though we are, man on earth, in the Spirit we are made to participate in saving acts (在圣灵里我们被造来参与拯救的动作) that are abruptly and absolutely divine, election, adoption, regeneration or sanctification, (拣选，领养，重生，或成圣) and we participate in them by grace alone. Theosis describes man’s involvement in such a might act of God upon him that he is raised up to find the true centre of his existence not in himself but in Holy god, where he lives and moves and has his being in the uncreated but creative energy of the Holy Spirit. By theosis the Greek fathers wished to express the fact that in the new coming of the Holy Spirit we are up against God in the most absolute sense, God in his ultimate holiness or Godness.
As I understand it, this is the antithesis of the nineteenth-century notion of the “the divine in man” which imprisons him in the depth of his own being, or of the man-centred emphasis of so many modern Protestants upon their own existential decisions or their own creative spirituality. Let us not quarrel about the word theosis, offensive though it may be to us, but follow its intention, not to allege any divinization of man but to speak of the fact that man in the weakness and lowliness of creaturely human being is by God made free for God through the power of the Creator Spirit who is not and will not be limited in his acts by man’s weakness or creaturehood or his lack of capacity. Theosis is an attempt to express the staggering significance of Pentecost as the coming from on high, from outside of us and beyond us, of divine power, or rather as the coming of Almighty God, the maker of heaven and earth, to dwell with sinful mortal man, and therefore as the emancipation of man from imprisonment in himself and the lifting of him up to partake of the living presence and saving acts of God (来参与神的存在和拯救工作) the Creator and redeemer. Is there anything we need to regain more than this faith in the utter Godness of God the Holy Spirit?
By Thomas F. Torrance
* https://www.51zanmei.net/home-space-do-blog-uid-21906-id-7206.html
it is proved that all human beings are deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having the power to become sons of the Most High,
人类能够成为神（多数，gods）并拥有成为至高者得众子的能力是毋庸置疑的，
=〉人类被认定值得成为神（多数，gods）并值得有权力成为至高者的众子的能力，这是被证实的，
who has advanced far beyond his humanity towards God himself
他已经远超他的人性，前进到神的自己
=〉 but the man alone is “the image and the likeness of God.” I mean by man not one who behaves like animals, but one who who has advanced far beyond his humanity towards God himself. (人独独有神的形像和样式)
... since you lived on earth and gained knowledge of the heavenly king, and you will be a companion of God and a co-heir with Christ, since you are not enslaved by desires or passions and diseases. For you have become a god. Whatever sufferings you endured, been a man, these he gave you because you are a man, but whatever is connected with God, these God promised to bestow on you, because you have been deified and born immortal.…既然你活在地上的时候得到了对于属天之王的认识，你就会成为神的同伴和与基督一同成为继承者，因着你没有被情欲的疾病所奴役。因为你成为了神（单数，a god）。不论你忍受了多少苦难，作为一个人，他乃是因为你是人而赐于你，但是，凡与神有关的，神就应许会倾倒于你，因为你已经被神化，并生为不朽。
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- oldfish
- 關於老魚的新帖，我並不覺得與改革宗有什麼相左；
成為神，就是成聖，得永生；沒有什麼不同的；
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那你还拿出来说事干什么?
彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big -
对于你们的神学辩论，没有兴趣，因为你们的辩论没有什么逻辑；
对于你们所引用的经文和前人言论，尝试多加了解；
总之，透过你们的引用，更肯定了：改革宗承袭着使徒、教父、大公会议的一贯信仰；
反而是李氏神学与正统神学脱节，走出另外一条道路；继续良性的竞争，也没什么不好的；
对于你们所不懂的改革宗，你们就少说些；不要把非改革宗当作改革宗；
对于你们引用前人言语的方式，令人不敢领教；
摇旗呐喊，适合做行销；
做学问，不是仅仅剪贴，而是先真正了解原作者在讲什么，避免会错意，也避免拿来砸自己的脚；
其次，要有逻辑、要有常规，更要排除矛盾，也就是收集足够的证据，罗列可能的解释；有了证据，要能够解释为什么会这样、为什么不是那样，因此就需要收集第二层的证据来证实这些解释；
一些口水战，就留在论坛，或留在者其它的论坛；
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