Wednesday, August 29, 2012

回:驳‘反对基督人性被造’的各式伪命题

2012-4-21 20:50


Big 2012-4-21 23:33
> 以唐崇荣牧师[1]领军的许多改革宗[2]归正神学的人士,不断的在各式各样的场合,公开批判传统、持正统信仰的基督徒聚会处。

> 来抵挡‘基督人性被造’这个自古以来就被大公教会所捍卫的正统教义[8]。
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-21 23:33
[8] 定罪教导‘基督是一个被造之物’之亚流异端的亚他那修,在其反对亚流的最主要著作--《反亚流四论文(Four Orations Against Arians)》的第十四章十一段中,就明确教导:“故此,使徒‘祂造(He made)’的这个表述是正确的,它并不是说道是被造的,而是指那个祂所取的与我们一样的身体。故此,祂成为人,被称作是我们的兄弟。即使当‘造(made)’这个字被用来指这位道的时候,它乃是被当作‘生(begat),’现今的讨论已经从每一个角度陈明了这个字的意义,并指明子(Son)不是一个成品,从素质上就是父的流出。而根据父的良善旨意,在经纶(Economy)中,祂为了我们的缘故被造、并被组成为一个人。我要再看看他们还能掰出其他错误的推论?因着这个原因,使徒说,‘祂向那造祂者尽忠。’在箴言中,甚至称祂为被造之物。只要我们承认祂成为人,不论我们说‘祂成为,’或‘祂被造作(has been made),’或‘被造(created),’或‘被塑造(formed),’或‘奴仆,’或‘使女之子(son of an handmaid),’或‘人子,’或‘被构成(was constituted),’或‘走了祂的旅程,’或‘新郎’或‘兄弟的儿子,’或‘兄弟,’都是没有问题的。这些词汇都能够合适的别用来描述人的构成。它们都不代表道的素质,而是祂的成为人。(Hence it holds that the Apostle’s expression, ‘He made,’ does not prove that the Word is made, but that body, which He took like ours; and in consequence He is called our brother, as having become man. But if it has been shewn, that, even though the word ‘made’ be referred to the Very Word, it is used for ‘begat,’ what further perverse expedient will they be able to fall upon, now that the present discussion has cleared up the word in every point of view, and shewn that the Son is not a work, but in Essence indeed the Father’s offspring, while in the Economy, according to the good pleasure[271]of the Father, He was on our behalf made, and consists as man? For this reason then it is said by the Apostle, ‘Who was faithful to Him that made Him;’ and in the Proverbs, even creation is spoken of. For so long as we are confessing that He became man, there is no question about saying, as was observed before, whether ‘He became,’ or ‘He has been made,’ or ‘created,’ or ‘formed,’ or ‘servant,’ or ‘son of an handmaid,’ or ‘son of man,’ or ‘was constituted,’ or ‘took His journey,’ or ‘bridegroom,’ or ‘brother’s son,’ or ‘brother.’ All these terms happen to be proper to man’s constitution; and such as these do not designate the Essence of the Word, but that He has become man.)”马丁路德在《关乎基督神性与人性的辩论(Disputation On the Divinity and Humanity of Christ)》一文中也说道,“其实这些异端人士的里面,隐藏着欧迪奇的影子,等待有一天机会来到,否认道成肉身的真理.这等人士外表承认道成肉身,在人面前作秀,但其实等待舞台灯光暗下来之后,就在一否定了基督是受造者之后,就接着否认道成肉身.在这等不可以理性了解的题目上,我们必须守住一个原则,就是以合适的方式解读教父们的话,这是必须的。当你知道一个人的教训明明是合乎基督教信仰,是正统的,却硬要将他所说的一些可质疑的话扯成异端,这样的行为是邪恶的,”和,“士闵克非应以以下的理由被否定:人是受造物,基督是人,所以基督是受造物,但士闵克非又说:“人类的救主不能又是受造物,又坐在父宝座的右边,又是亚伯拉罕的后裔等等。”但是这种理论的自然结论是我们必须反对的。”换句话说,这些【伪改革宗人士】乃是如同当年的幻影论,欧迪奇主义,和亚波里拿流主义一样,犯了‘以基督的神性去否定基督的人性’的错误!
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-21 23:38
[7] 他们甚至为了捍卫自己的异端,不惜扭曲教父的言论,甚至否定正统教父。如斑马在《简评亚他那修的基督人性/肉身受造观》(http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_6151b1790100pwj2.html)就宣称,‘亚他那修不将基督的身体归于圣道位格之内,反而在圣道位格之外——因为在基督身上“道”取代了“灵魂”——身体既然没有纳入圣道位格、不在圣道位格之内,自然不会影响圣道位格,所以,即使身体是受造的,基督的位格仍不是受造的,也不会受到被造身体(即亚氏所理解的受造人性)的影响,’和,‘亚他那修似乎按照字面意义认为“道成肉身”之“肉身”就是血肉之体,而不是完整的、有灵魂有身体的人。而“道成肉身”之“成”就是圣道进入或穿上血肉之体。这不符合圣经本身的希伯来整全人观,乃是希腊哲学、人类学的思维方式。新约作者如约翰、保罗都是持希伯来整全人观的,并不把人严格地切割为不同部分,形成二元对立或三元分割的构成,反倒常常以局部代表整体来进行描述。如“道成肉身”的“肉身”虽然是强调了人的血肉身体的真实一面,却并不仅仅指人的身体,而是以“肉身”代表完整的有血有肉的人。“道成肉身”就是圣道成为有血有肉的真实的人。’他的结论是,‘我们根据圣经强调,不可将耶稣基督的灵魂、身体理解为受造物,否则耶稣基督的位格就成为受造的。耶稣基督的位格是圣道位格“取”了人的形象样式,耶稣基督在人性里是圣子“受生”于圣父在人类历史之中的延伸。基督徒所崇拜、所祈祷的主绝对不是受造物,基督的位格里没有丝毫受造成份,因此祂配得天上、地上、地底下、沧海里一切受造物的敬拜(启5:13)。’
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-22 00:25
亚流异端 - 这位基督,不仅是人,亦是半神,不与圣父同等。圣父与圣子在本质上是有区别的。
亞流說父是完全的神,子是受造之物中領頭的,而靈又是比子較低的。雖然對亞流而言,子與靈的神性不清楚,但他的說法其實就是三神論。
认为耶稣次于天父和反对教会占有大量财富。


诺斯底异端 - 拒绝相信基督的人性和属地的本质是被造的。
諾斯底主義否定[2]基督之人性,認為基督的肉身是靈界的投影,或者說基督的靈是在耶穌這人受洗時臨到他身上,到耶穌死前則離開了他。
诺思底主义者相信透过这种超凡的经验,可使他们脱离无知及现世。
现今学者中经常用来表示那些以个人智慧来获得拯救的人。
诺斯底主义只是普遍地为二元论,他们可以由彻底的二元论(即摩尼教)到传统较轻的缓和二元论。
彻底二元论:或称为“绝对二元论”,当中有两个同等的神祗,
缓和二元论:是指两个神祗中的一个较另一个低级。
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-22 01:07
異端是指持守並傳播一種與聖經及正統教會相違的思想。

- 希臘的異端一詞是Hairesis,在新約用過九次,基本上是指小教派的思想,分別用來指︰撒都該人(徒五17)、法利賽人(十五5,二十六5)、拿撒勒黨,即指基督徒(二十四5,二十八22)。保羅在徒二十四14以「道路」(hodos)來代替「異端」(hairesis),是當時教外人對基督徒的稱謂,顯出早在那個時候,人對基督徒的觀感已是相當反面的了。
- 再者,hairesis一詞亦含有教會中另一股分裂的小團體,成因可能是人的山頭主義或缺乏愛(林前十一19;加五20)。保羅在多三10用了異端的形容詞hairetikos,指出異端是一個分裂群體的人物;
- 後來這詞在教會中,主要是指一種錯誤的神學思想或教義,就如彼後二1稱那些否認耶穌基督的位格與工作的人,為「陷害人的異端」。
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-22 18:37
* 别傻了 !!!

> 若基督的人性不是被造的,就代表祂的人性是不完全的!
> 若基督的人性不是被造的,祂就不是一个真人!
> 若基督的人性不是被造的,祂就无法与我们同质![29]
> 若基督的人性不是被造的,祂的人性特征就与祂的神性特征‘混乱’了。换句话说,祂就成了一个非神非人的怪物!
> 若基督的人性不是被造的,祂的神性和人性间的区隔就被打破了,各性的特点无法得以保存!

[29] 《加克顿信条》中文译文中的两个‘同体’英文是‘consubstantial’。更准确的翻译应该是‘同质’,也就是希腊文的‘homoousios’。
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 10:50
> 以唐崇荣牧师[1]领军的许多改革宗[2]归正神学的人士,不断的在各式各样的场合,公开批判传统、持正统信仰的基督徒聚会处。


> 来抵挡‘基督人性被造’这个自古以来就被大公教会所捍卫的正统教义[8]。

[1] 唐崇荣牧师在其《基督论》讲座中,当有人询问他,说,“主耶稣既是完全的神,又是完全的人;道成肉身,神性穿上人性。可见主耶稣有分于受造的人性,甚至他复活的肉身也是会朽坏的。若因此下结论;主耶稣不但是创造者,也是受造的,有分于受造的,这样的结论有没有问题?”他的回答是:“大有问题!耶稣是[创造者]。如果祂的身体是[被造的],那么祂整个身体是自己造的,祂进去祂自己造的里面;那祂到底有分于受造的部份,或是受造的部分有分于祂呢?你把它颠倒过来了!是[道成肉身],不是道进到被造肉身之中,是[道成肉身];换句话说,道经过一个过程以后,就在肉身中间显现。圣经从来没有提到,耶稣有受造的一部分, 这个是亚流的异端、是诺斯底主义的异端 、是李常受的异端来毒害教会。耶稣基督里面没有受造的一部分,祂是创造者,祂是配受敬拜和永恒歌颂的。罗马书九章5节:〔列祖就是他们的祖宗,按肉体说,基督也是从他们出来的;祂是在万有之上,永远可称颂的上帝。阿门。〕祂是永远被歌颂、领受敬拜的创造者,祂不是受造的。”


[2] 奥古斯丁在《教义手册》中承认,“这个有童女怀孕所生的受造者虽然只与子的位格结合,但是受造于整个三位一体(因为整个三位一体的工作是不能分开的)。。。”;在《三位一体论》中则教导,“照样祂在上帝的形象里造了人;祂却在奴仆的形象里被造为人。。。既然上帝的形象取了奴仆的形象所以祂是二者,是上帝也是人;是上帝,乃是由于上帝去取;是人,乃是由于人被取。两者中之一,既不因取的动作变成了另一,即神并未被改变成受造者,以致不再是神;而受造也并不改变为神,以致不再是受造者。”金陵神学院主编的《基督教历代名著集成》中的《历代基督教信条》中的《比利时信条》承认,“我们相信,这概念乃是说,子与人性结合不可分解;……可是每性仍保留其特性。正如 祂的神性总是非受造的 ,无生之始,无命之终,充满天地,同样, 祂的人性也未丧失其特性,而总是受造的 (注:原文作【受造物】) ,有生之始,是有限的,并且保留着真身体的一切特性。”澳大利亚的凯姆斯科特改革宗教会和加拿大的克洛弗戴尔、兰里两个改革宗教会翻译的《比利时信条》的相关段落翻译为,“祂的神性总非被造,无生之始,无命之终,充满天地;祂的人性并未失去其特性,有生之始,仍属受造,是有限的,具有真肉体的一切属性。藉着复活,祂虽将不朽赋予了祂的肉体,但是祂并未改变其人性的一切真实性,因为我们的救恩与复活也要靠祂肉身的真实性成全。”改革宗方面【承认基督人性-肉身是被造】的立场,是非常明确的。
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 11:11
反亚流

2讲.14章.3. 
- But when the Essence is an Offspring and Son, then 'He made,' and 'He became,' and 'He created,' no longer properly belong to it, nor designate a work; but 'He made' we use without question for 'He begat.' 

2讲.14章.11. 
- Hence it holds that the Apostle's expression, 'He made,' does not prove that the Word is made, but that body, which He took like ours; and in consequence He is called our brother, as having become man. 

* Made 这个字早已经失去了意义,神学上的意义完全取决于它所修饰的主词。
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 11:20
反亚流
(主旨) 2.1.  from a misconception of the Apostle's words (to mention them first), they considerthe Word of God to be one of the works, because of its being written, 'Who was faithful to Him that made Him,'
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 11:29
反亚流
2.10 
- Therefore reasonably the Apostle ...says, an 'Apostle and faithful to Him that made Him,'showing us that, even when made man, 'Jesus Christ' is 'the same yesterday, and today, and for ever Hebrews 13:8 ' is unchangeable. 

- And as the Apostle makes mention ... of His being made man when mentioning His High Priesthood, so too he kept no long silence about His Godhead, but rather mentions it immediately, furnishing to us a safeguard on every side, and most of all when he speaks of His humility, that we may immediately know His loftiness and His majesty which is the Father's.

- And men are clothed in flesh in order to be and to subsist; but the Word of God was made man in order to sanctify the flesh, and, though He was Lord, was in the form of a servant; for the whole creature is the Word's servant, which by Him came to be, and was made.
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 11:33
> 耶稣有受造的一部分, 这个是亚流的异端、是诺斯底主义的异端 、

耶稣同时是人也是神,
亚流,耶稣是人;诺斯底,耶稣是神。
耶稣被造,亚流拒绝耶稣是神;
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 21:07
反亚流
2.1. 
- Were it otherwise, they would not have shut themselves up in the unbelief of the present Jews , but would have inquired and learned that, whereas 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,' in consequence, it was when at the good pleasure of the Father the Word became man, that it was said of Him, as by John, 'The Word became flesh John 1:14;' so by Peter, 'He has made Him Lord and Christ Acts 2:36 '—as by means of Solomon in the Person of the Lord Himself, 'The Lord created me a beginning of His ways for His works Proverbs 8:22;' so by Paul, 'Become so much better than the Angels Hebrews 1:4;' and again, 'He emptied Himself, and took upon Him the form of a servant Philippians 2:7;' and again, 'Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Jesus, who was faithful to Him that made Him. ' 

- For all these texts have the same force and meaning, a religious one, declarative of the divinity of the Word, even those of them which speak humanly concerning Him, as having become the Son of man. 

- But, though this distinction is sufficient for their refutation, still, since from a misconception of the Apostle's words (to mention them first), they consider the Word of God to be one of the works, because of its being written, 'Who was faithful to Him that made Him,' I have thought it needful to silence this further argument of theirs, taking in hand , as before, their statement.
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 21:34
反亚流
2.9. 
- whereas He is Son by nature Only-begotten, and then had 'brethren,' when He took on Him flesh like ours; which moreover, by Himself offering Himself, He was named and became 'merciful and faithful,'— 

- merciful, because in mercy to us He offered Himself for us, 
- and faithful, ... but as deserving to receive faith in all He says and does, and as offering a faithful sacrifice, one which remains and does not come to nought.
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 21:42
反亚流
2.8. 
- For what happened of old was a shadow of this; and what the Saviour did on His coming, this Aaron shadowed out according to the Law. As then Aaron was the same and did not change by putting on the high-priestly dress , but remaining the same was only robed, 

- so that, had any one seen him offering, and had said, 'Lo, Aaron has this day become high-priest,' he had not implied that he then had been born man, for man he was even before he became high-priest, but that he had been made high-priest in his ministry, on putting on the garments made and prepared for the high-priesthood; 

- in the same way it is possible in the Lord's instance also to understand aright, that He did not become other than Himself on taking the flesh, but, being the same as before, He was robed in it; 

- and the expressions 'He became' and 'He was made,' must not be understood as if the Word, considered as the Word , were made, but that the Word, being Framer of all, afterwards was made High Priest, by putting on a body which was originate and made, and such as He can offer for us; wherefore He is said to be made.
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 21:44
反亚流
2.8. 
- If then indeed the Lord did not become man , that is a point for the Arians to battle; but if the 'Word became flesh,' what ought to have been said concerning Him when become man, but 'Who was faithful to Him that made Him?' 

- for as it is proper to the Word to have it said of Him, 'In the beginning was the Word,' so it is proper to man to 'become' and to be 'made.' Who then, on seeing the Lord as a man walking about, and yet appearing to be God from His works, would not have asked, Who made Him man? 

- And who again, on such a question, would not have answered, that the Father made Him man, and sent Him to us as High Priest? And this meaning, and time, and character, the Apostle himself, the writer of the words, 'Who is faithful to Him that made Him,' will best make plain to us, if we attend to what goes before them. 

- For there is one train of thought, and the lection is all about One and the Same. He writes then in the Epistle to the Hebrews thus; 'Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily He took not on Him the nature of Angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behooved Him to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 

- For in that He Himself has suffered being tempted, He is able to succour them that are tempted. Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Jesus; who was faithful to Him that made Him. '
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 21:53
反亚流
2.12. 
- For Peter, after saying, 'He has made Lord and Christ,' straightway added, 'this Jesus whom you crucified;' which makes it plain to any one, even, if so be, to them, provided they attend to the context, that not the Essence of the Word, but He according to His manhood is said to have been made. 

- For what was crucified but the body? And how could be signified what was bodily in the Word, except by saying 'He made?' Especially has that phrase, 'He made,' a meaning consistent with orthodoxy; in that he has not said, as I observed before, 'He made Him Word,' but 'He made Him Lord,' nor that in general terms , but 'towards' us, and 'in the midst of' us, as much as to say, 'He manifested Him.'

- Consequently the term which he uses in the end, 'made', this He has explained in the beginning by 'manifested,' for by the signs and wonders which the Lord did, He was manifested to be not merely man, but God in a body and Lord also, the Christ. Such also is the passage in the Gospel according to John, '
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 21:59
反亚流
2.13. 
- But if they continue the argument on the ground of its being written, 'He made,' not willing that 'He made' should be taken in the sense of 'He manifested,' either from want of apprehension, or from their Christ-opposing purpose, let them attend to another sound exposition of Peter's words. For he who becomes Lord of others, comes into the possession of beings already in existence; but if the Lord is Framer of all and everlasting King, and when He became man, then gained possession of us, here too is a way in which Peter's language evidently does not signify that the Essence of the Word is a work, but the after-subjection of all things, and the Saviour's Lordship which came to be over all.
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 22:35
反亚流
2.8. putting on a body which was originate and made,
2.10. the Word was not as one of things originate in a body, nor as creature in creature, but as God in flesh , and Framer of all and Builder in that which was built by Him.
2.11. 'He made,' does not prove that the Word is made, but that body, which He took like ours;
2.14. God ... makes His own Son put on Him a human body and become man, and be called Jesus, that in this body offering Himself for all, He might deliver all from false worship and corruption, and might Himself become of all Lord and King. 
2.16. He who was in a body was God, and also the Life and Lord of death.
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-4-24 22:42
反亚流
2.3. But when the Essence is an Offspring and Son, then 'He made,' and 'He became,' and 'He created,' no longer properly belong to it, nor designate a work; but 'He made' we use without question for 'He begot.' Thus fathers often call the sons born of them their servants, yetwithout denying the genuineness of their nature; and often they affectionately call their own servants children, yet without putting out of sight their purchase of them originally; for they use the one appellation from their authority as being fathers, but in the other they speak from affection. Thus Sara called Abraham lord, though not a servant but a wife; and while to Philemon the master the Apostle joined Onesimus the servant as a brother, Bathsheba, although mother, called her son servant, saying to his father, 'Your servant Solomon 1 Kings 1:19;'— afterwards also Nathan the Prophet came in and repeated her words to David, 'Solomon your servant. ' Nor did they mind calling the son a servant, for while David heard it, he recognised the 'nature,' and while they spoke it, they forgot not the 'genuineness,' praying that he might be made his father's heir, to whom they gave the name of servant; for to David he was son by nature.

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