Tuesday, August 28, 2012

杂记 E

2012-2-12 01:32

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Big 2012-2-12 01:35
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/const3.asp

Medieval Sourcebook: 
Sixth Ecumenical Council: Constantinople III, 680-681

1. EXTRACTS FROM THE ACTS.
SESSION I.

1.a. THE LETTER OF AGATHO, POPE OF OLD ROME, TO THE EMPEROR, AND THE LETTER OF AGATHO AND OF BISHOPS OF THE ROMAN SYNOD, ADDRESSED TO THE SIXTH COUNCIL.

1.a.1. THE LETTER OF POPE AGATHO.

336

For which reason we rightly believe that that same person, since he is one, has two natural operations, to wit, the divine and the human, one uncreated, and the other created, as true and perfect God and as true and perfect man, the one and the same, the mediator between God and men, the Lord Jesus Christ.
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-12 01:35
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinisext_Council

Both the Fifth and the Sixth Ecumenical Councils had omitted to draw up disciplinary canons,
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-12 01:35
http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/councils_ecumenical_rudder.htm

The First Ecumenical Council.

Those who say: There was a time when He was not, and He was not before He was begotten; and that He was made our of nothing (ex ouk onton); or who maintain that He is of another hypostasis or another substance [than the Father], or that the Son of God is created, or mutable, or subject to change, [them] the Catholic Church anathematizes.
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-12 01:35
http://www.ebaomonthly.com/ebao/readebao.php?a=20110801

六.君士坦丁堡大會(Third Council of Constantinople, 680-681)

  長達幾個世紀“基督本性”爭議,是造成教會分裂的主要因素;也關係到政教互相利用,權力爭奪的原因。因為教會沒有任何一個合法機制,權力,可以號召各教區主教,主持討論信仰的認同問題;羅馬皇帝為了國家“統一”,自然樂意越俎代庖召開會議,當會議爭持不下的時候,更可運用政治權力,強制執行有利於他的神學立場。
  由533至681年,經歷查士丁尼一世到君士坦丁四世,又召開了多次的會議,仍然沒有甚麼進展。教會在羅馬皇帝頒發沒有約束力的“合一通諭”下,表面統一,內部仍然我行我素,各自為政。
  692年,皇帝查士丁尼二世(Justinian II, 669-711),再次在君士坦丁堡召開會議,為將上兩次會議作補充或作結論,稱之為“五六會議”(Quinisext Council)。會議確認君士坦丁堡主教區與羅馬主教區享有同等特權;准許執事和長老娶妻,斥責羅馬教區禁止神職人員結婚措施;禁止教會仿效羅馬風俗,在大齋節內每禮拜六禁食;禁止用西方教會以羔羊圖像為基督之象徵,改用人的圖像。這些決議,加深了東西方教會的裂痕。
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-12 01:36
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/羅馬帝政時期

284年,戴克里先称帝后,将元首制改为君主制。君主被当作神来崇拜。另外戴克里先实行四帝共治,东西部各有两帝,一为正职,称奥古斯都,一为副职,称凯撒,最高权力属戴克里先。

306年君士坦丁一世在不列颠即位。312年,他击败了马克森提乌斯,统一了西方。313年,君士坦丁一世和李锡尼乌斯颁布了米蘭敕令,宣布基督教合法。314年,两人爆发了冲突,323年,两人再战,君士坦丁成为了帝国的唯一统治者。

他任命三个儿子君士坦丁二世、君士坦提乌斯二世、君士坦斯为凯撒,各统治帝国的一部分。君士坦丁将全国分为四个大行政区,下为行政区,再下为行省。

353年君士坦提乌斯二世成为了唯一的统治者。

361年,君士坦提乌斯二世的堂弟背教者朱利安造反,朱利安取得政权。实行反基督教政策,大力扶助多神教。
363年,朱利安在波斯阵亡。即位的约维安取消了朱利安的反基督教政策。
364年,约维安中毒身亡,多瑙河军官瓦伦提尼安一世被军队立为皇帝,接着他把东部的帝国分给弟弟瓦伦士。

376年,瓦伦提尼安一世去世,瓦伦提尼安二世继位。378年,瓦伦士在亚德里亚那堡于哥特人的作战中阵亡,随后东部由格拉蒂安和狄奥多西共治。格拉蒂安在383年死去,狄奥多西与哥特人讲和,允许他们在境内定居,参加军队和担任官吏。他又让西部的瓦伦提尼安二世让给他一片土地,在388年他击败了西部的篡位者马格努斯·马克西穆斯和弗拉维乌斯·维克托父子。392年,瓦伦提尼安二世在维也纳被杀。


392年狄奥多西一世宣布基督教为国教,反对一切异教和异端。394年成为了帝国的唯一统治者,这是罗马帝国的最后一次统一。
395年狄奥多西去世,他把帝国一分为二,东部分给长子阿卡狄乌斯,西部分给幼子霍诺里乌斯。

405年冬,阿拉里克突破了罗马帝国的莱茵河防线。
407年阿拉里克入侵意大利。
409年,阿拉里克第二次包围罗马,扶立了一个傀儡皇帝。
410年,阿拉里克第三次包围罗马,抢掠三天,大获而归。

418年,西哥特王国在西罗马帝国阿基坦高卢行省建立,首都图卢兹,这是在罗马帝国境内第一个建立起来蛮族王国。
455年,汪达尔人首领攻进罗马,全城被洗劫一空。在此之后,西罗马帝国已经无法维持。西部后来又出现过八个皇帝,但都是傀儡。
476年,奥多亚克反叛,宣称效忠东罗马帝国皇帝芝诺,将西罗马帝国的国徽转让给东罗马帝国,西罗马帝国灭亡。奥多亚克废黜西罗马帝国皇帝,宣称自己作为东罗马帝国皇帝的代理人,统治亚平宁半岛地区。但是东罗马皇帝芝诺不承认奥多亚克。
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-12 01:36
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/君士坦丁堡普世牧首

普世牧首是正教会的精神领袖和主要发言人,但是并无任何凌驾于其他牧首或另外14个自主教会之上的权威。

在381年,第一次君士坦丁堡公会议宣布了如下信纲:「君士坦丁堡的主教在羅馬主教之後,亦享有首席的尊榮,因為君士坦丁堡是新羅馬」。

在451年的加尔西顿公会议上正式确立了君士坦丁堡牧首的辖区(包括小亚细亚和色雷斯),也确立了君士坦丁堡在各地教会中的地位仅次于罗马。

在中世纪,君士坦丁堡牧首们完全受制于拜占庭帝国的皇帝,这使得他们的地位最终变得无足轻重。历任皇帝经常干预教会事务,他们实际上可以任意废立牧首。许多皇帝甚至任命宦官担当牧首之位。
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-14 22:51
本帖最后由 Big 于 2012-2-14 22:50 编辑

「疾風烈火」一書的布魯克林會幕教會,The Brooklyn Tabernacle; 他们是从关怀社会中下阶层的成员开始,当然牧师家庭也因为会友生活不良受到影响,但是他们凭借祷告一次又一次把人带回到神的面前;祷告的路,不是一条容易的路,付出许多泪水和等待;

对于社区,一些美国教会有 jail ministry, counseling ministries, marriage ministry, Stephen ministry, AWANA; 

* AWANA 是儿童事工,类似美国童军的活动,不过参加的小孩,一般是基督徒家庭;也有其他类似AWANA的活动;

* Stephen ministry 司提反事工 是个人关怀事工,全国性的组织,类似AWANA,只要当地教会想发展这个事工,就会派人来训练和发展;训练时间约半年(不记得了);

* Marriage ministry 婚姻事工,一般是一系列的课程,其他还有理财课程、教养课程;因为对象是是社区成员,所以课程当然依据圣经原则,但是没有很死板地反复翻阅圣经;美国的家庭教育 home schooling 的团体多半借用教会场地(因为一般是基督徒反对公立学校的某些教导,所以多数是基督徒) ;

* Counseling ministries 心理辅导-协谈-咨商事工,一般都是有政府核发的辅导师执照在做;这个也是一个全国性的机构,帮助教会成立专业性的事工,但是需要修课和考照所以训练时间要数年;

* Jail ministry 监狱事工,一般小镇的监狱都很欢迎教会牧长定期到狱所查经和辅导;
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-16 02:23
評論文章要:更具體,更客觀,更深入 

具体,就要缩小讨论范围,明定讨论主题 (2-14 22:55) 
客观,就要列举正反双方,分析背景和影响 (2-14 22:57) 
深入,就要明白该动机和目的,用专业的知识和方法切入 (2-14 22:58)
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-16 19:59
费氏短要理问答(Fisher's Shorter Catechism)的第22问, 是对这个信条的很好的总结。
http://www.reformed.org/documents/fisher/index.html?mainframe=http://www.reformed.org/documents/fisher/index_fish.html

Q. 19. Why was not the human body created immediately out of nothing , or out of the dust of the earth, as Adam's body was?

A. Because, in that case, though he would have had a true body, yet it would not have been akin to us , bone of our bone, and flesh of our flesh.
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-16 22:22
耶利米書22章30節
「耶和華如此說:要寫明這人算為無子,是平生不得亨通的;
因為他後裔中再無一人得亨通,能坐在大衛的寶座上治理猶大。」 

Matt = 
* 亞伯拉罕生以撒 * 雅各生約瑟,耶穌是從馬利亞*生的
亞伯拉罕 - 大衛 - 所羅門 - 羅波安 - 
希西家 - 瑪拿西 - 亞們 - 約西亞 - 耶哥尼雅* 
- 撒拉鐵 - 所羅巴伯 - 亞比玉 - 以利亞敬

Luke = 
* 以撒是亞伯拉罕的兒子 * 依人看來,他是約瑟的兒子
亞伯拉罕 - 大衛 - 拿單 - 瑪達他 - 
以摩當 - 哥桑 - 亞底 - 麥基 - 尼利 
- 撒拉鐵 - 所羅巴伯 - 利撒 - 約亞拿
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-16 22:37
vine - branch - fruit
fruit of righteousness, fruit of the Spirit, 
fruit of labour, fruit of our lip, fruit of doings
firstfruits of Achaia,
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-16 22:51
嫁接

嫁接是利用植物受伤后具有愈伤的机能来进行的。嫁接时,使两个伤面的形成层靠近并扎紧在一起,结果因细胞增生,彼此愈合成为维管组织连接在一起的一个整体。一般来说,植物亲缘关系越近,则亲和力越强。例如苹果接于沙果;梨接于杜梨、秋子梨;柿接于黑枣;核桃接于核桃楸等亲和力都很好。所谓亲合力,就是接穗和砧木在内部组织结构上、生理和遗传上,彼此相同或相近,从而能互相结合在一起的能力。
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-16 22:54
试管婴儿,体外受精,胚胎移植技术

从卵巢内取出几个卵子,在实验室里让它们与男方的精子结合,形成胚胎,然后转移胚胎到子宫内,使之在妈妈的子宫内着床,妊娠。

取卵后4~5小时将处理后的精子与卵子放在同一个培养皿中,共同培养18小时后,可在显微镜下观察受精情况。受精卵在体外培养48~72小时可发育到8~16细胞期胚胎。此时依据患者的年龄、曾经怀孕与否及胚胎的质量,决定移植胚胎的数目,多余的胚胎可冷冻保存。胚胎移植一般不需麻醉。目前多在受精后2~3天移植胚胎。

当二至三个以上的卵泡直径大于1.8cm,且1.4cm以上的卵泡数与E2值相当,便可注射人绒毛促性腺激素(hCG),促使卵泡成熟。在注射hCG后34~36小时取卵。最常用的取卵方式是在的局部麻醉下,经阴道B超引导,将取卵针穿过阴道穹窿,直达卵巢吸取卵子,并立即在显微镜下将卵子移到含胚胎培养液的培养皿中,置37°C的培养箱中培养。
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-17 01:35
《天主教训导文集》第504号 只是一封教宗寫給皇帝的書信,649年拉脱朗会议會期的一封書信,拉脱朗会议不是大公会议;

第六大公会议也就是第三次君土坦丁堡公會議(公元680年-681年);
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-17 02:35
安波罗修:《论基督教信仰》

卷一第十五章96节:
因此子论到祂自己被造是就见证祂自己是人而言的。祂论述祂的人性,因这人性他被钉、受死并埋葬。(安波罗修:《论基督论信仰》,杨凌峰译,北京三联书店,2010,第214页)

96. Let us dispatch, then, that passage also, which they do use to misrepresent,— let them learn what is the sense of the words, "The Lord created Me." It is not "the Father created," but "the Lord created Me." The flesh acknowledges its Lord, praise declares the Father: our created nature confesses the first, loves, knows the latter. Who, then, cannot but perceive that these words announce the Incarnation? Thus the Son speaks of Himself as created in respect of that wherein he witnesses to Himself as being man, when He says, "Why do you seek to kill Me, a man, Who have told you the truth?" He speaks of His Manhood, wherein He was crucified, and died, and was buried.

96. Facessat igitur et illud, de quo calumniari solent, et discant, quemadmodum dictum sit: Dominus creauit me. Non dixit "pater creauit me", sed dominus creauit me. Caro dominum agnoscit, gloria patrem signat, creatura nostra dominum confitetur, caritas patrem nouit. Itaque quis ignoret quia ob causam incorporationis hoc dicitur? In eo igitur se creatum dicit, in quo et hominem testificatur dicens: Quid me quaeritis occidere hominem, in quo et crucifixus et mortuus et sepultus est. 


卷三第二章7节:
如我们所知,甚至连祂“被造”都是肉体的属性。因此我们的确读到:“锡安我们的母要说:‘祂是个人’,在她里面祂被造为人,至高者为她立定根基。”你要清楚了,“祂被造为人”,不是“祂被造为神”。(同上,第264页)

7. It was a bodily weakness, then, that is to say, a weakness of ours, that He hungered; when He wept, and was sorrowful even unto death, it was of our nature. Why ascribe the properties and incidents of our nature to the Godhead? That He was even, as we are told, "made," is a property of a body. Thus, indeed, we read: "Sion our mother shall say: 'He is a man,' and in her He was made man, and the Most High Himself laid her foundations." "He was made man," mark you, not "He was made God."

7. Corporis est igitur, hoc est nostrum est, quod esuriuit, nostrum est, quod fleuit, quod tristis fuit usque ad mortem. Cur ad diuinitatem, quae sunt nostra, referuntur? Corporis est, quod etiam factus adseritur; denique sic habes: Mater Sion, dicet homo, et homo factus est in ea, et ipse fundauit eam altissimus. Homo, inquit, factus est, non "deus factus est". 



卷三第四章27节:
事实上他在什么意义上"被造",他已经借圣先祖的口宣告了:"因为我灵魂里满了患难,我的性命临近阴间。我算和下坑的人同列,我被造为人一一不靠帮助而自由一一在死人中。"这里我们读到"我被造为人",不是"我被造为神"。还有"我灵魂里满了患难"。"我的灵魂",
你要注意,不是"我的神性"。他"被造"所关乎的乃是就他临近阴间所言,就他与别人算在一起所言,而神性决不允许任何跟别人算为一类的相似性作理由。然而注意神性的尊贵如何在基督里自我显示,甚至显示在注定死亡的肉身里。尽管他"被造"为人,"被造"为肉身,但是他在死人中有自由,"不靠帮助的自由"。(同上,269-270页)

27. Indeed, in what sense He was "made" He has declared by the mouth of the holy patriarch, saying: "For My soul is filled with sorrow to overflowing, and My life has drawn near unto hell. I have been counted with them that go down into the pit; I have been made as a man free, without help, among the dead." Here, then, we read: "I have been made as a man," not "I have been made as God;" and again: "My soul overflows with sorrows." "My soul," mark you, not "My Godhead." He was "made" in so far as that was concerned wherein He was due to hell, wherein He was reckoned with others, for the Godhead admits of no likeness which may be ground for classing it with others. Yet mark how the majesty of Godhead shows itself in Christ, even in that flesh which was appointed to death. Although He was "made" as a man, and "made" as flesh, yet He was made free among the dead, "free, without help."

27. In quo autem "factus" sit, per os sancti patriarchae locutus adseruit dicens: Quia repleta est malis anima mea et uita mea in inferno adpropiauit. Aestimatus sum cum descendentibus in lacum. Factus sum sicut homo sine adiutorio inter mortuos liber. Et hic sicut homo, inquit, non sicut deus factus sum et repleta est malis anima mea, anima utique, non diuinitas. "Factus" est in eo, in quo erat infernis debitus, factus est in eo, in quo cum aliis aestimatus est. Diuinitas enim similitudinem conlationis abiurat. Et tamen in ipsa carne morti obnoxia maiestatem aduerte diuinitatis in Christo: etsi factus est sicut homo et sicut caro factus est, factus est tamen inter mortuos liber et liber sine adiutorio. 




卷三第四章34节:
这样我们就知道,他被造为人,他的被造必定是针对他的人性而言的。而且在圣经另一处你可以读到"他被造为大卫后裔",就是说就肉身而言,他‘被造"为大卫的后裔,但他在世界以先就是神所生的神。(同上,271页)


34. We have learned, then, that He was made man, and that His being made must be referred to His manhood. Furthermore, in another passage of Scripture, you may read: "Who was made for Him of the seed of David," Romans 1:3 that is to say, in respect of the flesh He was "made" of the seed of David, but He was God begotten of God before the worlds.

34. Didicimus igitur "factum" esse hominem et ad hominem hoc esse referendum. Denique et alibi habes: Qui factus est ex semine Dauid. Secundum carnem utique ex semine Dauid factus est, deus autem ante saecula ex deo natus est. 


卷三第九章62节:
这样在所有被造物之前子受生,在万有中并为了万有的益处他被造;由父生,在律法之上,由马利亚带出,在律法之下。(同上,280页)

62. Before all created things, then, is the Son begotten; within all and for the good of all is He made; begotten of the Father, above the Law, Mark 2:28 brought forth of Mary, under the Law. Galatians 4:4

62. Ante omnia ergo generatio, inter omnia et propter omnia creatura, natus ex patre supra legem, "factus ex Maria sub lege". 


卷三第十一章81节:
最后,使徒自己对腓立比人说:“被造为人的样式,即有人的样子,就自己卑微,存心顺服,以至于死。”注意关于提到“被造”,使徒说他被造为人的样式,不是针对神的统管一切而言,并且祂存心顺服至死,从而祂是作为人合适的顺服,并获得了由神掌权的国度。(同上,第285页)

81. Finally, the Apostle himself says to the Philippians, that "being made in the likeness of man, and found in outward appearance as a man, He humbled Himself, being made obedient even unto death." Philippians 2:7-8 Mark that, in regard whereof He is "made," He is made, the Apostle says, in the likeness of man, not in respect of Divine Sovereignty, and He was made obedient unto death, so that He displayed the obedience proper to man, and obtained the kingdom appertaining of right to Godhead.

81. Postremo ipse apostolus ad Philippenses ait quia in similitudine hominis factus et specie inuentus ut homo humiliauit semet ipsum factus oboediens usque ad mortem. Vide ubi factus sit! In similitudine, inquit, hominis, non in potestate dei, et factus oboediens usque ad mortem, ut oboedientiam quidem hominis habuerit, regnum diuinitatis. 



卷三第十一章82节:
我们需要再引用多少经文来证明祂“被造”必须理解为祂的道成肉身或某些特定的职分呢?无论什么被造,同样的事物也是被创造的,因为“祂一说它们就被造成;祂一吩咐便都造成”,“耶和华造了我”。这些话都是针对祂的人性而言,我们已经在第一卷里表明,“被创造”这个词似乎是就道成肉身而言的。(同上,第285-286页)


82. How many passages need we cite further in evidence that His "being made" must be understood with reference to His Incarnation, or to some particular dispensation? Now whatsoever is made, the same is also created, for "He spoke and they were made; He gave also the word, and they were created." "The Lord created me." These words are spoken with regard to His Manhood; and we have also shown, in our First Book, that the word "created" appears to have reference to the Incarnation.

82. Quantis igitur adhuc utemur exemplis ad incarnationem uel ad aliquid referendum esse, quod "factus est"? Quod autem factum est, idem est et creatum. Dixit enim et facta sunt, mandauit et creata sunt. "Creatum" quoque supra ostendimus in libro primo de incarnatione dictum uideri.
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-17 03:03
安波罗修:《论基督教信仰》

卷一第十五章96节:
因此子论到祂自己被造creatum是就见证祂自己是人而言的。祂论述祂的人性,因这人性他被钉、受死并埋葬。(安波罗修:《论基督论信仰》,杨凌峰译,北京三联书店,2010,第214页)

卷三第二章7节:
如我们所知,甚至连祂“被造factus”都是肉体的属性。因此我们的确读到:“锡安我们的母要说:‘祂是个人’,在她里面祂被造factus为人,至高者为她立定根基。”你要清楚了,“祂被造factus为人”,不是“祂被造factus为神”。(同上,第264页)

卷三第四章27节:
事实上他在什么意义上"被造factus",他已经借圣先祖的口宣告了:"因为我灵魂里满了患难,我的性命临近阴间。我算和下坑的人同列,我被造Factus为人一一不靠帮助而自由一一在死人中。"这里我们读到"我被造为人",不是"我被造factus为神"。还有"我灵魂里满了患难"。"我的灵魂",
你要注意,不是"我的神性"。他"被造"factus所关乎的乃是就他临近阴间所言,就他与别人算在一起所言,而神性决不允许任何跟别人算为一类的相似性作理由。然而注意神性的尊贵如何在基督里自我显示,甚至显示在注定死亡的肉身里。尽管他"被造"factus为人,"被造"factus为肉身,但是他factus 在死人中有自由,"不靠帮助的自由"。(同上,269-270页)

- 他"被造"factus所关乎的乃是就他临近阴间所言,就他与别人算在一起所言,
- "Factus" est in eo, in quo erat infernis debitus, factus est in eo, in quo cum aliis aestimatus est.  
- He was "made" in so far as that was concerned wherein He was due to hell, wherein He was reckoned with others, 


卷三第四章34节:
这样我们就知道,他被造factum为人,他的被造必定是针对他的人性而言的。而且在圣经另一处你可以读到"他被造factus为大卫后裔",就是说就肉身而言,他‘被造"factus为大卫的后裔,但他在世界以先就是神所生natus的神。(同上,271页)

卷三第九章62节:
这样在所有被造物之前子受生generatio,在万有中并为了万有的益处他被造creatura;由父生natus,在律法之上,由马利亚带出factus,在律法之下。(同上,280页)

卷三第十一章81节:
最后,使徒自己对腓立比人说:“被造factus为人的样式,即有人的样子,就自己卑微,factus存心顺服,以至于死。”注意关于提到“被造factus”,使徒说他被造为人的样式,不是针对神的统管一切而言,并且祂factus存心顺服至死,从而祂是作为人合适的顺服,并获得了由神掌权的国度。(同上,第285页)

卷三第十一章82节:
我们需要再引用多少经文来证明祂“被造factus”必须理解为祂的道成肉身或某些特定的职分呢?无论什么被造factum,同样的事物也是被创造的creatum,因为“祂一说它们就被造成factum;祂一吩咐便都造成creatum”,“耶和华造了我”。这些话都是针对祂的人性而言,我们已经在第一卷里表明,“被创造Creatum”这个词似乎是就道成肉身而言的。(同上,第285-286页)
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-18 21:40
在文法上,比喻的说法是很管用的。基督是受造的,故此基督是受造物。但在神学上, 文法是丝毫不能帮助的 。

In grammatica analogia optime valet: Christus est creatus. Ergo Christus est creatura. 
In theologia nihil minus valet. 
In grammar, analogy works very well:  Christ is created.  Therefore Christ is a creature.  But in theology, nothing is more useless.
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-18 22:12
These statements are different: 
"the Word was made (into) flesh," 
"the Word was made," 
"the flesh was made."

Do not follow people's thoughts without telling differences.
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-19 04:22
很抱歉,我并不明白于三位一体、或所谓的位格。

就我所知道,
神论里的三位一体强调的是,有三位,这三位有相同的本质,但是是三个不同的个体。
位格用来指称三位一体中的个体,不同的独立个体。
就好比,三座房屋都是木造的,都是桃木造的。
第二位格、圣子、神子、基督、道,指的都是同一个个体。

基督论里的两性一位,一个位格(第二位格)里同时有独立的两性,神性和人性。
如果说基督单单是神,耶稣单单是人,那么耶稣基督代表的就是又是人又是神的个体或位格,
按着人性来看,这个位格是人,真的人,完全的人,是受造物,是个受造物的位格。
位格的神性、非被造性并不受影响,有变化的是位格,从灵体变成肉体,或者说多了肉体。

请分别 受造、受造物 之间的不同。
基本上,讨论已经进入到钻牛角尖的地步,重点在于基督是不是人,至于基督是不是被造,是不是受造物,后两者的讨论会影响多少呢?
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-19 18:49
three untreated elements

But we must, on the other hand, refute the delirium, or the diabolical madness of that caviller, Servetus, who imagined that Christ was from the beginning an angel, as if he was a phantom, and a distinct person, having an essence apart from the Father; for he says, that he was formed from three untreated elements. This diabolical conceit ought to be wholly discarded by us. But Christ, though he was God, was also a Mediator; and as a Mediator, he is rightly and fitly called the angel or the messenger of God, for he has of his own accord placed himself between the Father and men.
~ Hosea 12:3-5 ~ Calvin's Commentaries, Vol. 26: Hosea

Paul does further by these words not only declare that Christ had real flesh, but he also clearly distinguishes his human from his divine nature; and thus he refutes the impious raving of Servetus , who assigned flesh to Christ, composed of three untreated elements.
~ Romans 1:13 ~ Commentary on Romans

5. But in our age, also, has arisen a not less fatal monster, Michael Servetus, who for the Son of God has substituted a figment composed of the essence of God, spirit, flesh, and three untreated elements. First, indeed, he denies that Christ is the Son of God, for any other reason than because he was begotten in the womb of the Virgin by the Holy Spirit. 
~ Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 2 Chapter 14


Big 2012-2-20 18:12
楼主之作演绎自路德马丁的《关乎基督之神性与人性的争辩》

注意文中的中文翻译:
     其实都是说明 mean nothing else than that 
     (中文翻译漏翻了一句:他有受造物)he has a creature
     基督是受造物取了受造之人的样式(英文是:人样的受造物), or has assumed a human creature, 
     或者更直截了当说,or, what is simplest, 
     既然这些说法都是指基督的人性就是一个受造物,the humanity of Christ is a creature,
flicker 彩虹炫 | 编辑 删除Big 2012-2-20 19:01
there are sheep without, and wolves within = there are sheep outside of churches, and wolves inside of churches

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