b07. Latin - factus

2012-2-12 05:31

* “被造”在这里个是翻译问题。虽然 factus 是被动语态，但是是完成时态；而、factus 的字根（2）是个半-假被动字

factus  （http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe?factus）

（1）fact.us              VPAR   3 1 NOM S M PERF PASSIVE PPL

facio, facere, feci, factus  V (3rd) TRANS   [xXAO]  

make/build/construct/create/cause/do; 

（2）fact.us              VPAR   3 3 NOM S M PERF PASSIVE PPL

fio, feri, factus sum  V SEMIDEP   [xXAO]  

happen, come about; 

（1）fact.us              V-PAR   3 1 NOM S M PERF PASSIVE PPL
（factus        动词-分词   第3类  第1种变化 主词 单数 阳性 完成式 被动态 分词 ）
facio, facere, feci, factus  V (3rd) TRANS   [XXXAO]  
（facio, facere, feci, factus  动词 (第三) 及物动词-接受词   [XXXAO]  ）
make 做/build 造/construct/create 创造/cause/do; 

（2）fact.us              V-PAR   3 3 NOM S M PERF PASSIVE PPL
（factus        动词-分词   第3类  第3种变化 主词 单数 阳性 完成式 被动态 分词 ）
fio, feri, factus sum  V SEMI-DEP   [XXXAO]  
（fio, feri, factus sum  V动词 半-假被动态（只有完成式的被动态实为主动意）   [XXXAO]  ）
happen 发生, come about; result (from); 

《假 被动态》（异相动词）。Deponent verb 异相动词，是一种假语态的动词。拉丁文和希腊文的语态有：主动、被动、中动（又叫关身 reflexive; 复数时，互相 reciprocal ）。 异相动词通常没有主动字形，以中动字形来表示主动意思，所以是假中动语态 。fio 是半-异相动词，以被动语态来表示主动意思，是假被动语态；但是只有在完成式时态时，才有假语态的性质，所以叫半异相动词 semi deponent verb，是有条件的假语态动词。希腊文里，一些异相动词在某些时态里有中动字形和被动字形，在某些时态里中动字形可以表示主动或被动，要看前后文来决 定。

罗1:3 拉丁文译本的 factus 是分词-完成式-被动态，factus 的字根（或字源）有两个可能：facio（造）或 fio（发生），而 fio 有假被动态的特性，也就是被动态的 fio（也就是 factus ）其实是主动的意思，因此，拉丁文译本忠实于希腊文经文。

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至于英文的 make 也有 cause to happen 和 become 的意思。

http://www.google.com/dictionary?langpair=zh-CN|en&q=make&hl=en&aq=f

(Google Dictionary)

make   /meɪk/ DJ   /mek/ KK

1. to create or prepare something by combining materials or putting parts together 制造；做；组装 ~ sth (from/(out) of sth) ~ sth into sth ~ sth (for sb) ~ sb sth

See also: do

4. to cause something to appear as a result of breaking, tearing, hitting or removing material 造成（破坏、破损等） VN

5. to cause something to exist, happen or be done 使出现；引发；使产生 VN

6. to cause somebody/something to be or become something 使变得；使成为 VN-ADJ

8. to cause somebody/something to be or become something 造就；使构成 ~ sth of sb/sth ~ sth sth

13. to become or develop into something; to be suitable for something 成为；适合 linking verb V-N

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/make_1?q=make

(Cambridge Dictionaryies Online)

make verb (CAUSE)

make verb (CAUSE TO BE)

make verb (BE OR BECOME)

make verb (PRODUCE)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obsolete?show=0&t=1311837147

make verb \ˈmāk\

2

a : to cause to happen to or be experienced by someone

b : to cause to exist, occur, or appear : create

c : to favor the growth or occurrence of

d : to fit, intend, or destine by or as if by creating

9

a : to cause to be or become

b : appoint

15 : to cause to act in a certain way : compel

16 : to cause or assure the success or prosperity of

- Dec 7, 2011 12:38 PM

〉 奥古斯丁说：“祂卑微到受‘造’的地步，所以祂被差遣，就是受造。”请问这里的“造”可解释作“成为”吗？

(English)

On the Trinity (Book IV) - Chapter 19 - 26

26. When, therefore, the fullness of time had come,

God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the Law;

to such a degree lowly, that He was made;

in this way therefore sent, in that He was made.

If, therefore, the greater sends the less,

we too, acknowledge Him to have been made less;

and in so far less, in so far as made;

and in so far made, in so far as sent.

For He sent forth His Son made of a woman.

For He sent forth His Son made of a woman.

And yet, because all things were made by Him,

not only before He was made and sent,

(Latin)

19. 26. Cum ergo venit plenitudo temporis,

misit Deus Filium suum factum ex muliere, factum sub Lege 142,

usque adeo parvum, ut factum;

eo itaque missum, quo factum.

Si ergo maior mittit minorem,

fatemur et nos factum minorem,

et in tantum minorem in quantum factum,

et in tantum factum in quantum missum.

Misit enim Filium suum factum ex muliere,

per quem tamen quia facta sunt omnia,

non solum priusquam factus mitteretur,

English= http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/130104.htm

Latin= http://www.augustinus.it/latino/trinita/index2.htm

- Dec 7, 2011 12:39 PM

翻譯不同

to such a degree lowly, that He was made;

in this way therefore sent, in that He was made.

usque adeo parvum, ut factum;

eo itaque missum, quo factum.

http://ishare.iask.sina.com.cn/f/13094468.html

《奥古斯丁-论三位一体》【古罗马】.pdf

26、祂卑微到受“造”的地步。所以祂被差遣，就是受造。

http://book.kuanye.net/files/article/fulltext/0/714.html#18834

二六、祂卑微到受“生”的地步。所以祂被差遣，就是受生。

http://www.360doc.com/content/11/0803/23/1317564_137787819.shtml

二六、祂卑微到受“生”的地步。所以祂被差遣，就是受生。

- Dec 7, 2011 12:40 PM

〉 奥古斯丁说：“祂卑微到受‘造’的地步，所以祂被差遣，就是受造。”请问这里的“造”可解释作“成为”吗？

祂卑微到 成为（从女人而出，在律法之下） 的地步，

所以祂被差遣，就是 成为 （从女人而出，在律法之下）。

注：所以在这样（卑微）当中他被差遣，也这样成为。

- Dec 7, 2011 12:41 PM

〉 奥古斯丁在他的著作里一再引用加4:4和罗1:3来说到基督人性的受造，这位用拉丁文来写作的伟大的早期教父作家难道会不明白拉丁文facio这个字在圣经里何时该解释为“被造”，何时该译解释“成为”吗？

拉丁文的“造”和“成为”是同一个字，该如何解释是翻译拉丁文的人的责任。

- Dec 7, 2011 12:56 PM

http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe?factus

* fact.us VPAR 3 1 NOM S M PERF PASSIVE PPL

facio, facere, feci, factus V (3rd) TRANS [XXXAO] 

make/build/construct/create/cause/do; have built/made; fashion; work (metal);

act/take action/be active; (bowels); act/work (things), function, be effective;

produce; produce by growth; bring forth (young); create, bring into existence;

compose/write; classify; provide; do/perform; commit crime; suppose/imagine;

* fact.us VPAR 3 3 NOM S M PERF PASSIVE PPL

fio, feri, factus sum V SEMIDEP [XXXAO] 

happen, come about; result (from); take place, be held, occur, arise (event);

be made/created/instituted/elected/appointed/given; be prepared/done; develop;

be made/become; (facio PASS); [fiat => so be it, very well; it is being done];

* fact.us V-PAR 3 1 NOM S M PERF PASSIVE PPL

factus 动词-分词 第3类 第1种变化 主词 单数 阳性 完成式 被动态 分词 

facio, facere, feci, factus V/动词 (3rd) TRANS/及物动词-接受词 [XXXAO] 

make 做/build 造/construct/create 创造/cause/do; have built/made; fashion; work (metal);

act 行/take action/be active; (bowels); act/work (things), function, be effective;

produce; produce by growth; bring forth (young); create, bring into existence;

compose 编/write 写; classify; provide 供应; do 做/perform; commit crime; suppose/imagine;

* fact.us V-PAR 3 3 NOM S M PERF PASSIVE PPL

factus 动词-分词 第3类 第3种变化 主词 单数 阳性 完成式 被动态 分词 

fio, feri, factus sum V SEMI-DEP/半-假被动态（只有完成式的被动态实为主动意） [XXXAO] 

happen 发生, come about; result (from); take place, be held, occur, arise (event);

be made 被造/created/instituted/elected 被选/appointed 被指定/given; be prepared/done; develop;

be made/become; (facio PASS); [fiat => so be it, very well; it is being done];

- Dec 7, 2011 12:56 PM

http://www.google.com/dictionary?langpair=zh-CN|en&q=make&hl=en&aq=f

(Google Dictionary)

make /meɪk/ DJ /mek/ KK

verb

Irregular: made; made /meɪd/ DJ /med/ KK

1. to create or prepare something by combining materials or putting parts together 制造；做；组装 ~ sth (from/(out) of sth) ~ sth into sth ~ sth (for sb) ~ sb sth

See also: do

4. to cause something to appear as a result of breaking, tearing, hitting or removing material 造成（破坏、破损等） VN

5. to cause something to exist, happen or be done 使出现；引发；使产生 VN

6. to cause somebody/something to be or become something 使变得；使成为 VN-ADJ

8. to cause somebody/something to be or become something 造就；使构成 ~ sth of sb/sth ~ sth sth

9. to decide, guess, etc. something 做，作出（决定、估计等） VN ~ a decision, guess, comment, etc.

10. to force somebody to do something 迫使；强迫

11. to represent somebody/something as being or doing something 表现；表示；描绘

12. to elect or choose somebody as something 选举；挑选；任命 VN-N

13. to become or develop into something; to be suitable for something 成为；适合 linking verb V-N

18. to manage to reach or go to a place or position （尽力）赶往，到达，达到 VN no passive

19. to cause something to be a success 使成功；使圆满 VN

- Dec 7, 2011 12:56 PM

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/make_1?q=make

(Cambridge Dictionaryies Online)

make verb (CAUSE)

make verb (CAUSE TO BE)

make verb (BE OR BECOME)

make verb (PRODUCE)

- Dec 7, 2011 12:57 PM

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obsolete?show=0&t=1311837147

make verb \ˈmāk\

made mak·ing

Definition of MAKE

transitive verb

2

a : to cause to happen to or be experienced by someone

b : to cause to exist, occur, or appear : create

c : to favor the growth or occurrence of

d : to fit, intend, or destine by or as if by creating

9

a : to cause to be or become

b : appoint

15

: to cause to act in a certain way : compel

16

: to cause or assure the success or prosperity of

- Dec 7, 2011 12:57 PM

是的，拉丁文译本真的翻译成 “被造” ，于是回过头来对照英文圣经译本，发现 只有钦定本（KJV）翻译成 “made 被造” 。

回到希腊文新约手抄本，倒 都是 “genomenou 成为” 。

其实，希腊文ginomai（成为，有（没有主词，受词为假主词））常常被翻译成拉丁文的 factus（被造（完成式-被动态-分词））。

参考：http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe?factus 

罗1:3 拉丁文译本的 factus 是分词-完成式-被动态，factus 的字根（或字源）有两个可能：facio（造）或 fio（发生），

而 fio 有假语态的特性，也就是被动态的 fio（也就是 factus ）其实是主动的意思，

因此，拉丁文译本忠实于希腊文经文。

所以，奥古斯丁没有【错】，是英文翻译错了，导致奥氏成为千古罪人。

注：《假语态》。Deponent verb 异相动词，是一种假语态的动词。拉丁文和希腊文的语态有：主动、被动、中动（又叫关身 reflexive; 复数时，互相 reciprocal ）。 异相动词通常没有主动字形，以中动字形来表示主动意思，所以是假中动语态 。fio 是半-异相动词，以被动语态来表示主动意思，是假被动语态；但是只有在完成式时态时，才有假语态的性质，所以叫半异相动词 semi deponent verb，是有条件的假语态动词。希腊文里，一些异相动词在某些时态里有中动字形和被动字形，在某些时态里中动字形可以表示主动或被动，要看前后文来决定。

参考：http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/make_1?q=make

或者，中文翻译错了，英文的 to be made（被造）本身就有 to become（成为）的意思。

- Dec 7, 2011 12:57 PM

不过，我再查考奥古斯丁的拉丁文文稿（《论三位一体》），

我想，我必须做个更正。

罗1:3 的 factus est 应该是“被造”的意思，而不是“成为”。

“Proinde in forma dei fecit (made 造) hominem; in forma serui factus (being-made 被造) est (was) homo. ”

~ AUGUSTINI, DE TRINITATE, LIBER I, [VII 14]

“Quis dubitet eum omnia 'quae creata (being-created 创造) sunt' dicere, sicut Iohannes: Omnia per ipsum facta (being-made 造) sunt?”

~ AUGUSTINI, DE TRINITATE, LIBER I, [VI 12]

当然还是有“成为”意思的例子，但是从惯用法来看，罗1:3的翻译还是以“被造”为首选。

“Humiliauit se factus (became 成为) obediens (being-obeying 顺服) usque ad mortem, mortem autem crucis;”

~ AUGUSTINI, DE TRINITATE, LIBER I, [XIII 29]

参考网站：

http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/augustine/trin1.shtml 

http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe?factus

尽管如此，还是不会改变我的立场，因为罗1:3的翻译还是应该以希腊文为主。

- Jan 5, 2012 12:04 PM

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=factus&la=la#lexicon

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=factus&la=la

http://www.latin-dictionary.net/q/latin/factus.html