2012-2-12 05:15
马丁路德 - 关乎基督神性与人性的辩论 （原文是拉丁文）
13． 因为明显的 ，基督是被造的。since a errantly it is said that Christ was created.
30． 一面又不敢反对 肉身乃是受造的。though he has not yet dared to deny that flesh is a creature.
第二部分 - 介言：末了，我们要观察教父们的说法。 他们若有任何地方说法不太妥当 (if they have sometimes spoken ineptly)，我们也应正确的领会他们的话，... 基督就着他的人性是受造者 (Christ is a creature according to his humanity)，
1． 它们是不能分的，是两种独特的性质，但同属一不可分的人位，并没有两个人位，然而那个自独特的又是不可分的，故此， 性质是独特的，但人位是不可分的。
For then they are undivided [indistinctae], but two distinct natures, yet belonging to an undivided person [indistinctae personae]. There are not two distinct persons, but what is distinct is [sunt distinctae] undivided [indistinctae], that is, there are distinct（有分别的） natures, but an undivided（不可分离） person（位格）.
11． 当 你取了人
12． 当 你取了人性
28. 故此，他之作为“受造物”， 并不是基于旧的意义和思想 。Therefore he is not a creature in the old sense of the word.
马丁路德 - 罗马书讲义：
“在此希腊文版本最有帮助：‘论到祂儿子，大卫的后裔 所造成的 ；’”
- 《Luther: Lectures on Romans By Martin Luther》，“Romans Chapter One”，page 12-13：
Here the Greek text[22] is most helpful; it reads as follows: “Concerning his Son, made of the seed of David ,
- 请注意： 编者Wilhelm Pauck 在13页做了注释22，编者Pauck 认为路德并不是直接引用希腊文经文，路德在这里只是辗转引用他人的一部拉丁文作品。
- 《Luthers Vorlesung über den Römerbrief, 1515/1516: Die Scholien》 By Martin Luther, Johannes Ficker; page 9-10, I. 3,4
De fllio suo, qui factus est ei ex semine David seeundum carnem,
... de filio suo facto ex semine David
... sed incarnato ex semine David .
... factus est filius David in carnis infirmitate,
Sermon of 1525, WA 17 1:438; “In ipsa,” 54.
“we ... become full of God , ... filled with His Spirit , ... . In short, that everything that He is and can do, be fully in us and mightily work , that we be completely deified [vergottet] , ... you become full of God , ... in sum, your whole life be completely divine [Gottisch] .”
拉丁文的 factus，英文的 made，相对于希腊文的 γινομαι，
(1) 拉丁文的 factus 和英文的 made，有希腊文的 γινομαι “成为”的意思？还是
(2) 希腊文的 γινομαι ，有拉丁文的 factus 和英文的 made “被造”的意思？
字典里，factus 和 make 也有“成为”的意思，但是他们的主要意思是“做，造”。字典里，虽然 γινομαι 的主要意思是“成为”，也有“被造，被生”的意思。
罗1:3和加4:4，德文翻译和法文翻译多做“被生”。早期的英文翻译，如钦定本和日内瓦译本做“被造”。早期的法文翻译受到日内瓦译本的影响，也做 fait “被造”；比利时信条（原文是法文）因此也使用 fait，但是比利时信条的德文翻译，又改回 geworden “成为”或 geboren “被生”。
类似的，fait 的 se fait 句型有“成为”的意思。
马丁路德 - 关乎基督神性与人性的辩论 （原文是拉丁文）
13． 因为明显的 ，基督是被造的。since a errantly it is said that Christ was created.
30． 一面又不敢反对 肉身乃是受造的。though he has not yet dared to deny that flesh is a creature.
第二部分 - 介言：末了，我们要观察教父们的说法。 他们若有任何地方说法不太妥当 (if they have sometimes spoken ineptly)，我们也应正确的领会他们的话，... 基督就着他的人性是受造者 (Christ is a creature according to his humanity)，
1． 它们是不能分的，是两种独特的性质，但同属一不可分的人位，并没有两个人位，然而那个自独特的又是不可分的，故此， 性质是独特的，但人位是不可分的。
For then they are undivided [indistinctae], but two distinct natures, yet belonging to an undivided person [indistinctae personae]. There are not two distinct persons, but what is distinct is [sunt distinctae] undivided [indistinctae], that is, there are distinct（有分别的） natures, but an undivided（不可分离） person（位格）.
11． 当 你取了人
12． 当 你取了人性
28. 故此，他之作为“受造物”， 并不是基于旧的意义和思想 。Therefore he is not a creature in the old sense of the word.
马丁路德 - 罗马书讲义：
“在此希腊文版本最有帮助：‘论到祂儿子，大卫的后裔 所造成的 ；’”
- 《Luther: Lectures on Romans By Martin Luther》，“Romans Chapter One”，page 12-13：
Here the Greek text[22] is most helpful; it reads as follows: “Concerning his Son, made of the seed of David ,
- 请注意： 编者Wilhelm Pauck 在13页做了注释22，编者Pauck 认为路德并不是直接引用希腊文经文，路德在这里只是辗转引用他人的一部拉丁文作品。
- 《Luthers Vorlesung über den Römerbrief, 1515/1516: Die Scholien》 By Martin Luther, Johannes Ficker; page 9-10, I. 3,4
De fllio suo, qui factus est ei ex semine David seeundum carnem,
... de filio suo facto ex semine David
... sed incarnato ex semine David .
... factus est filius David in carnis infirmitate,
Sermon of 1525, WA 17 1:438; “In ipsa,” 54.
“we ... become full of God , ... filled with His Spirit , ... . In short, that everything that He is and can do, be fully in us and mightily work , that we be completely deified [vergottet] , ... you become full of God , ... in sum, your whole life be completely divine [Gottisch] .”
拉丁文的 factus，英文的 made，相对于希腊文的 γινομαι，
(1) 拉丁文的 factus 和英文的 made，有希腊文的 γινομαι “成为”的意思？还是
(2) 希腊文的 γινομαι ，有拉丁文的 factus 和英文的 made “被造”的意思？
字典里，factus 和 make 也有“成为”的意思，但是他们的主要意思是“做，造”。字典里，虽然 γινομαι 的主要意思是“成为”，也有“被造，被生”的意思。
罗1:3和加4:4，德文翻译和法文翻译多做“被生”。早期的英文翻译，如钦定本和日内瓦译本做“被造”。早期的法文翻译受到日内瓦译本的影响，也做 fait “被造”；比利时信条（原文是法文）因此也使用 fait，但是比利时信条的德文翻译，又改回 geworden “成为”或 geboren “被生”。
类似的，fait 的 se fait 句型有“成为”的意思。
- Dec 6, 2011 10:15 AM
> 在此希腊文版本最有帮助：‘论到祂儿子，大卫的后裔所造成的；
http://books.google.com/books?id=bXERc8FCmsIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=lectures+on+romans+luther&source=bl&ots=WOQGeny3kT&sig=Zr59ltXbSpOo-4S6B77sxusg3WA&hl=en&ei=FMV9Tf-XGcOAlAfs6dz-BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&sqi=2&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
--- 《罗马书讲义》英文版
编者 Wilhelm Pauck 在13页做了注释22，“22 Luther used the Pauline commentary of Faber Stapulensis (Epistle Pauli Apostoli. Paris 1512; 2ed ed., 1515). Faber attempted a new translation from Greek to Latin. However, Luther relied chiefly on Laurentius Valla (Annotationes in latinam Novi Testmenti interpretationem, edited by Erasmus: Paris, 1505).”
也就是说，编者 Pauck 认为路德并不是直接引用希腊文经文，路德在这里只是辗转引用他人的作品（一部拉丁文的作品）。也就是說，路德用拉丁文寫《罗马书讲义》時，引用另一個拉丁文的作品，而“被造”factus原本就有另一個意思“成為”，所以問題還是沒有解決。
路德可能不熟悉希腊文，因而引用他人的作品。但是路德獨自翻譯新約，以一天五章的驚人速度完成，可見路德熟悉希臘文。
或者 Laurentius Valla 可能是当时的希腊文权威，因為這是一個有爭議的經節，對路德來說仍然是個難題。
目前，希腊文手抄本都是genomenou，主要意思是 “成为” ，动词形态是关身形主动式（http://bible.fhl.net/gbdoc/new/fhlwhparsing.php?engs=Rom&chap=1&sec=3）。如果要讲成 被动式的 “被造” ，这是需要一大篇的论述。這裡的genomenou是第二不定過去式，沒有被動語態字型，所以其他語態可能有被動意。但是考查新約的ginomai，很少做被動意，甚至被動語態都做主動意；其次是，“被造”還是“被生”呢？
所以，另一个可能是，路德直接引述拉丁文经文，即使是拉丁文，在那里出奇地是个分词形容词，因為拉丁文的過去時態的句法是助動詞（是，to be）接過去分詞，如同法文和英文。
- Dec 6, 2011 10:19 AM
如果路德熟悉希腊文，何必拾人牙慧？
γενομένου 这么简单的一个字，路德也要参考其他名人的注释，足以表示这个字在罗1:3的角色不是很容易可以断定的。
其次，路德参考的是拉丁文著作，不看也知道，必定翻成 factus “被造”。
是啊，路德的希腊文程度实在很高段。新约27卷书，共260章，平均一天翻译3.5章。
- Dec 7, 2011 8:46 AM
> 用了不到80天夜以继昼的努力，独自一人完成了新约圣经的翻译。
是啊，路德的希腊文程度实在很高段。新约27卷书，共260章，平均一天翻译3.5章。
- Dec 7, 2011 8:51 AM
Pre-Lutheran German Bibles
There are still approximately 1,000 manuscripts or manuscript fragments of Medieval German Bible translations extant.[1] The earliest known and partly still available Germanic version of the Bible was the fourth century Gothic translation of Wulfila (ca. 311-380). This version, translated primarily from the Greek, established much of the Germanic Christian vocabulary that is still in use today. Later Charlemagne promoted Frankish biblical translations in the 9th century. There were Bible translations present in manuscript form at a considerable scale already in the thirteenth and the fourteenth century (e.g. the New Testament in the Augsburger Bible of 1350 and the Old Testament in the Wenceslaus or Wenzel Bible of 1389). There is ample evidence for the general use of the entire vernacular German Bible in the fifteenth century.[2] In 1466, before Martin Luther was even born, Johannes Mentelin printed the Mentel Bible, a High German vernacular Bible, at Strasbourg. This edition was based on a no-longer-existing fourteenth-century manuscript translation of the Vulgate from the area of Nuremberg. Until 1518, it was reprinted at least 13 times. In 1478-1479, two Low German Bible editions were published in Cologne, one in the Low Rhenish dialect and another in the Low Saxon dialect. In 1494, another Low German Bible was published in the dialect of Lübeck, and in 1522, the last pre-Lutheran Bible, the Low Saxon Halberstadt Bible was published. In total, there were at least eighteen complete German Bible editions, ninety editions in the vernacular of the Gospels and the readings of the Sundays and Holy Days, and some fourteen German Psalters by the time Luther first published his own New Testament translation.[3]
~ wikipedia
- Dec 7, 2011 8:52 AM
Luther's Bible
The most important and influential of translations of the Bible into German is the Luther Bible. The influence that Martin Luther's translation had on the development of the German language is often compared to the influence the King James Version had on English. The Luther Bible is currently used in a revised version from 1984, which was adapted to the new German orthography in 1999. Here also some revisions have taken place, e.g. "Weib" > "Frau". Despite the revisions, the language is still somewhat archaic and difficult for non-native speakers who want to learn the German language using a German translation of the Bible.
~ wikipedia
- Dec 7, 2011 8:57 AM
Luther's work
While he was sequestered in the Wartburg Castle (1521–1522) Luther began to translate the New Testament into German in order to make it more accessible to all the people of the "Holy Roman Empire of the German nation." He used Erasmus' second edition (1519) of the Greek New Testament, known as the Textus Receptus. Luther didn’t use the Vulgate which is the official Latin translation used by the Catholic Church. Both Erasmus and Luther learned their first Greek at the Latin schools led by the Brethren of the Common Life (respectively in Deventer (Netherlands) and in Magdeburg). These lay brothers added late 15th century Greek as a new subject to their curriculum. Greek was seldom taught even at universities.
To help him in translating Luther would make forays into the nearby towns and markets to listen to people speak. He wanted to ensure their comprehension by a translation closest to their contemporary language usage. It was published in September 1522, six months after he had returned to Wittenberg. In the opinion of the 19th century theologian and church historian Philip Schaff,
"The richest fruit of Luther's leisure in the Wartburg, and the most important and useful work of his whole life, is the translation of the New Testament, by which he brought the teaching and example of Christ and the Apostles to the mind and heart of the Germans in life-like reproduction. It was a republication of the gospel. He made the Bible the people's book in church, school, and house." [3]
~ wikipedia
Publication
The translation of the entire Bible into German was published in a six-part edition in 1534, a collaborative effort of Luther, Johannes Bugenhagen, Justus Jonas, Caspar Creuziger, Philipp Melanchthon, Matthäus Aurogallus, and Georg Rörer. Luther worked on refining the translation up to his death in 1546: he had worked on the edition that was printed that year.
There were 117 original woodcuts included in the 1534 edition issued by the Hans Lufft press in Wittenberg. They reflected the recent trend (since 1522) to include artwork to reinforce the textual message.[4]
~ wikipedia
- Dec 7, 2011 9:04 AM
翻譯聖經
路德在瓦爾特堡上持假名“荣客约克”待到1522年3月1日。在梅兰希通德鼓励下他从1521年秋开始翻译新约，在11个星期内他将新约译成德文。后来这个翻译被印刷许多次。此后他又翻译了旧约（1534年完成），两者一起组成了著名的路德圣经。作为翻译的基础他使用了伊拉斯謨的希腊文圣经和他自己的拉丁文翻译和武加大译本。
这样路德使得普通人也能读圣经的内容。他的翻译不是逐字逐句的翻译，而是将圣经中的大意（和他自己的理解）翻译为德文。他想使用大众的语言，因此他使用的语言是非常生动、形象、大众化和非常易懂的。他使用的方言是融合了南德和北德方言的中德方言。这也是他家乡的方言。他的圣经翻译为德文的规范化起了决定性的作用。
~ wikipedia
- Dec 7, 2011 9:11 AM
新约的形式大多数是书信，不是很系统，不是很正式；另外，有些人的希腊文不好，有些听写的人对亚兰文、希伯来文也不是很精通。所以，虽然大体上过得去，但是还是有些是语法凌乱，有些是只言片语，有些生字只出现过几次，导致翻译工作不会很顺利。即使是很完整的句子，字义和文法、字句和前后文，有时有多种组合，有时全然不通。所以，除了字义和文法外，前后文和神学也成为翻译时参考依据。
神学刊物里，常常有人为了经文的一个字、一个文法就写了一篇论文。翻译不是难事，但是要翻译得好这就是难事。所以，才有武加大译本、钦定本的传奇。法文译本 Louis Segond version 听说也不错。
- Dec 7, 2011 9:12 AM
路德也要参考其他名人的注释，足以表示这个字在罗1:3的角色不是很容易可以断定的。
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