a11. Fathers - Others

2012-2-12 05:22

亚他那修

1. 教父说 - “但是”篇

1.a. 亚他那修 298年－373年

《反亚流》第二讲，十四章
11. 故此，使徒‘祂造（He made）’的这个表述是正确的，它并不是说道是被造的，而是指那个祂所取的与我们一样的身体。... 即使当‘造（made）’这个字被用来指这位道的时候，它乃是被当作‘生（begat），’... 只要我们承认祂成为人，不论我们说‘祂成为，’或‘祂被造作（has been made），’或‘被造（created），’或‘被塑造（formed），... 它们都不代表道的素质，而是祂的成为人。

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亚他那修

http://athanasius.jimdo.com/%E4%BA%9A%E4%BB%96%E9%82%A3%E4%BF%AE%E4%BD%9C%E5%93%81%E9%9B%86/%E5%8F%8D%E4%BA%9A%E6%B5%81%E5%9B%9B%E8%AE%BA%E6%96%87-4-orations-against-arians/

亚他那修作品集

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http://edzx.com/zxdj/%E5%AE%8F%E9%81%93%E4%B9%A6%E5%AE%A4/e_book/%E5%8E%86%E4%BB%A3%E5%90%8D%E8%91%97%E9%9B%86%E6%88%90/%E7%AC%AC%E4%B8%80%E9%83%A8/%E5%B0%BC%E8%A5%BF%E4%BA%9A%E5%89%8D%E6%9C%9F%E6%95%99%E7%88%B6%E9%80%89%E9%9B%86/%E7%AC%AC%E4%B8%80%E7%AF%87%EF%BC%9A%E7%88%B1%E4%BB%BB%E7%BA%BD.htm

第一篇  爱任纽：反异端

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Big 2012-2-12 05:22

- Dec 6, 2011 10:44 AM
至于这点，特土良说的非常清楚：


For, as I have read in some writer of Valentinus' wretched faction,(18) they refuse at the outset to believe that a human and earthly substance was created(19) for Christ, lest the Lord should be regarded as inferior to the angels, who are not formed of earthly flesh; / 当我读到瓦伦天奴（Valentinus）的荒诞小说时，他们为了避免主不被人認為比天使微小，而天使不是由属地的血肉所造的，就此拒绝拒绝相信基督的人性和属地的本质是被造的；

V. ON THE FLESH OF CHRIST.(1) / 基督的肉体 by Tertullian / 特土良

- Feb 1, 2012 11:48 AM
2011-9-27 14:14
* 特土良 Tertullian

> 事实上，钱耀诚和黄士哲牧师并不是第一个发明这种基督论异端的人。早在2世纪，特土良在面对诺斯底主义瓦伦天奴派的基督论异端时，在他的《基督的肉體（On the Flesh of Christ）》中就明确说到：

> For, as I have read in some writer of Valentinus' wretched faction,(18) they refuse at the outset to believe that a human and earthly substance was created (19) for Christ, lest the Lord should be regarded as inferior to the angels, who are not formed of earthly flesh; / 当我读到瓦伦天奴（Valentinus）的荒诞小说时，他们为了避免主不被人認為比天使微小，而天使不是由属地的血肉所造的，就此拒绝相信基督的人性和属地的本质是 被造的 ；

( http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/tertullian/tertullian.carne.shtml )
: http://www.tertullian.org/articles/evans_carn/evans_carn_03latin.htm
: XV nam, ut penes quendam ex
Valentini factiuncula legi, primo non putant terrenamet humanam
Christo substantiam informatam ne deterior angelis dominus deprehendatur qui non terrenae carnis extiterunt, dehinc quod
oporteret similem nostrae carnem similiter nasci, non de spiritu
nec de deo, sed ex viri voluntate.

: http://www.tertullian.org/articles/evans_carn/evans_carn_04eng.htm
: 15 For, as I
have read in the works of one of Valentinus' faction, in the first
place they refuse to admit that terrestrial and human substance
was brought into shape for Christ, lest the Lord should turn out to be of less worth than the angels, who do not consist of terrestrial
flesh: and secondly, because flesh like ours would have needed
to be born like us, not of the Spirit, nor of God, but of the will of a
man.

: http://www.tertullian.org/anf/anf03/anf03-39.htm
: Chapter XV. For, as I have read in some writer of Valentinus' wretched faction,220 they refuse at the outset to believe that a human and earthly substance was created 221 for Christ, lest the Lord should be regarded as inferior to the angels, who are not formed of earthly flesh; whence, too, it would be necessary that, if His flesh were like ours, it should be similarly born, not of the Spirit, nor of God, but of the will of man.
: 221 Informatam.
: informat.am VPAR 1 1 ACC S F PERF PASSIVE PPL
informo, informare, informavi, informatus V (1st) [XXXDX] lesser
shape, form; fashion ; form an idea of;

- Feb 1, 2012 11:49 AM
2011-9-27 14:30
http://www.360doc.com/content/11/0106/09/4847571_84346329.shtml

唐崇荣 基督论 十 问题解答

13. 主耶稣既是完全的神，又是完全的人；道成肉身，神性穿上人性。可见主耶稣有分于受造的人性，甚至祂复活的肉身也是会朽坏的。若因此下结论：主耶稣不但是创造者，也是受造的，有分于受造的，这样的结论有没有问题？


答：大有问题！耶稣是[创造者]。如果祂的身体是[被造的]，那么祂整个身体是自己造的，祂进去祂自己造的里面；那祂到底有分于受造的部份，或是受造的部份有分于祂呢？你把它巅倒过来了！ 是[道成肉身]，不是道进到被造肉身之中，是[道成肉身] ；换句话说，道经过一个过程以后，就在肉身中间显现。圣经从来没有提到，耶稣有受造的一部份，这个是亚流的异端、是诺斯底主义的异端、是李常受的异端来毒害教会。耶稣基督里面没有受造的一部份，祂是创造者，祂是配受敬拜和永恒歌颂的。罗马书九章５节：［列祖就是他们的祖宗，按肉体说，基督也是从他们出来的；祂是在万有之上，永远可称颂的上帝。阿们。］祂是永远被歌颂、领受敬拜的创造者，祂不是被造的。至于启示录三章14节所提到的：[你要写信给老底嘉教会的使者，说：那为阿们的，为诚信真实见证的，在上帝创造万物之上为元首的说。]那一位在创造界中为元首的，有的人用希腊文把它翻译为[在创造中间最先的]，或"The first created one",或"The first born of the creatures"。我们应当怎样翻译才合乎全本圣经的思想呢？在被造中间成为阿拉法的、最原先的、做领导的、做领袖的、首先的那一位，祂是阿拉法、俄梅戛。 所以耶稣基督不是受造的 ，在基督的位格里面，没有受造的成份；连祂的人性、肉身中间，还是神自已以祂无穷的大能在肉身的范围中间向人显现，祂才是我们的救主。

- Feb 1, 2012 11:49 AM
2011-9-15 23:23
* 区利罗

http://books.google.com/books?id=N--h3G5Y60gC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Cyril+Alexandria&hl=en&ei=DSCATYeIIfSw0QGAkMWECQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=latin&f=false

《Cyril of Alexadria》written by Norman Russell,
67页指出：区利罗的著作多被翻译成拉丁文，送往罗马。
71页指出：亚历山大有许多翻译员，而与耶柔米同时代的区利罗应该见过耶柔米的作品。